NMU students and faculty may have received an email recently with a survey pertaining to carrying a concealed weapon on campus with a CCW permit from the state of Michigan. Although it is currently against Michigan law to carry a concealed weapon on college campuses, the survey being administered to NMU students and faculty show the debate about concealed weapons on college campuses has not dwindled.
The issue of concealed weapons with permits on campus is not as simple as any one person would tell you it is. Ultimately though, having concealed weapons on campus doesn’t solve anything.
Students and faculty on campus and across the state have diverse views on this subject. Some think weapons and guns in particular have no place in an academic atmosphere. They think concealed weapons will not make students any safer from a threat at school. Some even think students with concealed weapons on campus would make the university more dangerous.
On the other side of the issue, people believe that being able to carry a concealed weapon on campus will make them safer and protect them from a possible school shooter. Some even believe that carrying a concealed weapon on campus is a constitutional right. Many of these views, on both sides of the argument, are either wrong or misguided.
The core of this issue comes down to this: concealed weapons won’t stop a school shooting; society must create the conditions that make school shootings disappear.
It’s true that a student carrying a legal concealed weapon could theoretically stop a school shooting because he or she is armed with a weapon. But the odds of a student stopping a shooting by him or herself is very slim and could actually hinder the effort of law enforcement to stop the shooter because law enforcement must distinguish between the shooter and regular students with concealed weapons.
Another problem with concealed weapons on campus is that students will not know which students have permits for their weapons and which ones don’t. This could lead to unnecessary worry for students.
Valuing a safe learning environment is important. But students or faculty legally carrying concealed weapons will not make the learning environment on campus any less safe. In order to get a concealed weapons permit from Michigan, you must go through a background check, attend a class and take a written test.
People carrying concealed weapons on campus legally will not make the university community any less safe. But concealed weapons won’t solve anything either.
Earl Faulkner Sr • Mar 2, 2012 at 11:17 pm
Adam, Joe Liberty, Matt V, chip, Joe B., and Josh, you folks are astute, erudite, and on-point in your concealed carry argument. (I must add also, you are noble and honorable in debate). Facts can not be more precisely placed into right reason than that which you have here established.
Thank you all for defending the Constitution, and with your indulgence I will add this: You do not have to own a gun to be protected by someone who does; but you do have to protect the right of that someone to own that gun.
CL • Mar 2, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Look at the record.
As to being “worried about someone carrying”, how do you know that the student in front and to your right are not carrying at any moment??
….”law enfrocement not knowing the good from the bad?” The shooting will have long since ceased by the time any LEO gets to the scene. Many times they wait for ‘back up’ before proceeding. It would be nice to know what university ‘police depts’ have a policy of waiting for backup.. anyone?
David • Mar 2, 2012 at 11:02 am
I am far less concerned, or frightened by, the individual who takes the time and effort to become trained, educated, and licensed to legally carry a concealed handgun than I am by the criminal who simply carries one.
I believe, and I think that the statistics will support my belief, that I am far more likely to be shot by the latter.
Adam • Mar 2, 2012 at 10:40 am
Most crazy shooters shoot themself when a gun shows up. Look it up. Colorado springs church shooting. The anti gun people are the real danger. We live in dangerous world, get a helmet!
Dave B • Mar 2, 2012 at 8:58 am
You incorrect that carrying on a college campus is against the law. It is legal except for dormitories and classrooms. Some colleges and universities have taken the position that it is illegal but they are not supported by the law. It has not been litigated to my knowledge, but as a a firearms attorney, I don’t think the college would prevail.
Josh • Mar 2, 2012 at 8:31 am
During the Texas A&M shooting back in the 60’s local residents were encouraged by law enforcement to fire at the shooter. No one had a problem distinguishing between the man shooting unarmed individuals and the the ones shooting at the armed man. There are quite a few other instances where armed law abiding citizens have succeeded in stopping shooting suspects before law enforcement can arrive. The other and most important thing to realize is that every man and women that obtains a conceal carry permit takes on the responsibility and liability including criminal charges if they are negligent.
Joe B. • Mar 2, 2012 at 1:13 am
Try this on for size. Effective immediately, the university will regulate all reading material brought onto campus. Internet access will be restricted to allow only those sites approved for viewing by the administration. Campus demonstrations will be immediately prohibited, and all extra curricular clubs will be monitored by a faculty member at all times. Public gatherings of three or more students will require a permit, obtained at least 30 days in advance of the proposed event. Faculty will be present during the gathering to ensure compliance with campus codes of conduct.
What? Unconstitutional you say? Protected free speech you say? That’s funny, seeing as you’re more than willing to TRAMPLE my Second Amendment while screaming uncontrollably when someone dare threaten your precious First……..
This article demonstrates a total disregard for the US Constitution. What do your FEELINGS have to do with my ( or my student/childs ) RIGHTS?
chip • Mar 1, 2012 at 11:40 pm
“and could actually hinder the effort of law enforcement to stop the shooter because law enforcement must distinguish between the shooter and regular students with concealed weapons”
the students with the CCW would be huddled with all the other students in the classroom waiting for help but prepared to shoot the attacker should he come after them. The CCW student would not be out running around with a gun.
“Another problem with concealed weapons on campus is that students will not know which students have permits for their weapons and which ones don’t. This could lead to unnecessary worry for students.”
The firearm is concealed so NO students would be able to see the firearm to begin with. That is the point to having a CCW is to have it not be visible. You come into contact with dozens of people who are carrying firearms everyday and you dont even know it.
I would feel much safer in an environment where i know people are able to carry a firearm. Gun free zones only create defenseless victims. This is why CRIMINALS target schools, malls, and churches. They know the people they are attacking will not be able to shoot back to protect themselves. (although there was shooting in a church where an older woman was carrying and was able to shoot back at the guy saving many many lives.) Guns are not the problem. Criminals and evil people are the problem.
Matt V • Mar 1, 2012 at 11:27 pm
Stopping crimes because of concealed carry isn’t entirely about just being able to drop an assailant with a few bullets by being in the right place at the right time. The largest component is the deterrence factor. You can’t make that claim that concealed weapons don’t solve anything just because crimes still happen on concealed carry campuses. There will always be crazy, or desperate, or crazy desperate, people who are willing to rob, rape, or murder even with the slight possibility that their victim is armed. However there is also a larger proportion of criminals who prefer to find areas where they know, with some degree of certainty, that their intended victim is not armed. Concealed carry weapons deter these ‘sane’ criminals and force them to search elsewhere for victims. This can be seen in the decrease of crime on Utah and Colorado college campuses where concealed carry is permitted. As for stopping school shootings you can compare the Virginia tech shooting with the Appalachian School of law shooting in which several students prevented further shootings by the assailant. These, sirs/madams, are facts. I realize this may cut into your hoplophobic agenda but you yourselves acknowledge that concealed weapons will alter student behavior in a positive way when you state, ” students will not know which students have permits for their weapons and which ones don’t. This could lead to unnecessary worry for students.” Why would they worry when the only circumstances under which they would have to worry about a concealed carry weapon being drawn is in the case of life threatening danger to the carrier? Do your students frequently assault, murder, rape, or rob, each other? Because if they do then yes, they would now have to worry, if not then they will never know who has a weapon and who doesn’t making them kinder and more polite to everyone they meet. As Heinlein said, “An armed society is a polite society.”
anonymous • Mar 1, 2012 at 9:50 pm
The point for the argument for concealed carry on campus is not to allow student and faculty to empower themselves to go out and stop an active shooter like a vigilante would. The argument is simply that it is a fact that school shootings are possible, and as we just saw once again in Ohio, they do, in fact, occur. Allowing a law abiding citizen, who is trained, to carry a weapon concealed (meaning no one has any idea they have it, and it can therefore not be a distraction) on campus for self defense would allow that person to better protect themselves (and further, it is not a guarantee that you will be safe, but it surely does more to level the field against an attacker). Most people without concealed carry permits do not really know the whole philosophy behind it, simply because they do not embrace it or have never been exposed to it in an open minded, not emotion driven environment. Ignorance and closed minds tend to fuel the anti-carry side of the debate. The point is to protect yourself, not do the job of the police. Sworn police officers in America have a sworn duty to protect the people in general, and an individual with a carry permit has literally zero legal obligation to protect anyone (except perhaps a parent to their child or other similar cases, an obligation that persons without carry permits will also have). Further, to deny someone who can legally carry a weapon almost anywhere else for self defense is ridiculous. If one can be trusted to be responsible enough to carry a pistol, and not abuse or misuse that power, when he or she is almost anywhere else in the state, then why does that suddenly change when that person is on the campus of a University?
Joe Liberty • Mar 1, 2012 at 8:47 pm
You are incorrect about Michigan law. Michigan law prohibits concealed carry in the “dormitory or classroom of a college…” as well as “entertainment facility(s) seating more than 2500 people…” the rest of campus is open to concealed carry and I in fact have carried concealed on the NMU campus since 2004. You never even knew it, yet I was there, and I was armed. Does this bother you? If so you should ask yourself “why.”
Zachary • Mar 1, 2012 at 8:36 pm
While the odds of a lawfully armed citizen being able to stop a mass shooting scenario may be small, those situations are anomalies and are not the primary motivation for allowing licensed concealed carry on campus.
What is of primary concern is the thousands of violent crimes committed annually on college campuses, from robbery to mugging, kidnapping to rape. The unfortunate truth is that it is impractical for police to be omnipresent enough to prevent more than the smallest fraction of those crimes. If schools cannot guarantee the safety of their students, faculty, staff and visitors, it is reckless and irresponsible to prevent them from possessing the tools to effectively defend themselves.
This issue is not about who can carry a concealed firearm. That has already been decided by the legislatures of each state. Rather, it is an issue of whether a property line which is permeable to criminals and illegal weapons should prevent law-abiding citizens from having the option of effective self-defense.
Adam • Mar 1, 2012 at 8:17 pm
“concealed weapons won’t stop a school shooting; society must create the conditions that make school shootings disappear.”
Alright society, lets make a deal. You make absolutely POSITIVELY certain that you can enforce those conditions 100% of the time, and I’ll give up my gun. But as long as there is one mentally unbalanced individual out there who is likely to hurt someone, (and of course will choose an area that has been legislated to be defense-free to do so in,) I’ll be keeping mine close.